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Margolis, Ben (audio interview #1 of 1)
Ben Margolis was a leading labor and civil liberties lawyer in California, starting in the mid-1930s. He began his practice in San Francisco and moved to Los Angeles in 1943, where he formed the firm of Katz, Gallagher and Margolis. He played a prominent role in the wartime anti-discrimination suits filed against the shipyards and the Jim Crow Boilermakers union. In the 1940s, he served as main counsel for the LA CIO Council, although he jeopardized this relationship when he opposed the ILWU in a suit by mainly Black de-registered longshoremen. He is also known for his role in the Sleepy Lagoon murder case in the 1940s and, later, the Los Angeles Smith Act trials. The interview with Margolis was conducted by a history student as part of a project on the wartime fight to desegregate the unions.
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- 2019-09-20
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- Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-1:55)... Brief introduction. There is some background noise in the beginning of this segment. In 1933, Margolis began practicing law. His first position was an assistant in the Tom Mooney case, analyzing records arising from this case. This led him to other cases dealing with labor matters. In 1936, he went to work for a firm in San Francisco that represented labor disputes exclusively, and worked in San Francisco until 1943 when he moved to Los Angeles. He worked as a labor attorney from 1943-49, representing CIO unions in the southern California area, but occasionally also represented AFL unions in the area. (1:55-9:54)... He describes his involvement with the US Supreme Court case James v Marin Ship, a case involving segregation in the Boilermakers Union ( International Brotherhood of Boilermakers, Iron Ship Builders, Blacksmiths, Forgers and Helpers). The basis of the legal argument was that the segregated locals denied African Americans equal protection under the law. Although the Boilermakers Union defended their actions, the court outlawed Jim Crow locals in San Francisco, and as result segregation within union locals disappeared throughout the country. Margolis names the principals in the case, both the representatives for the Boilermakers Union and for the Jim Crow local. (9:54-11:55)... Margolis discusses his and Walter Williams' involvement with the "Unemployed 500" in Local 13 of the ILWU in San Pedro. Black men registered to work on ships during WWII were de-registered following the war at the same that the sons of white longshoremen were registered. He represented the ILWU local on this matter and successfully negotiated a settlement in which all 500 men were given full registration. (11:55-14:34)... Prior to WWII, membership in the ILWU and Local 13 was predominantly White. This changed during the war when there was a large influx of Blacks to the southern California area. The difference between the ILWU and the Boilermakers Union was that Blacks were given full registration and equal rights within the ILWU, whereas the Boilermakers Union set up a Jim Crow local. Compared to other unions, he believes that the leaders of the ILWU were vigorous opponents of discrimination. Nevertheless, prejudice still existed among individuals within the ILWU. (14:34-19:54)... During WWII, the anti-fascist fight did limit the practice of racial prejudice within the unions. Nevertheless, he believes that the general tone in the ILWU was one of racial cooperation. The leaders and the rank and file of the ILWU were opposed to discrimination as a matter or principle. When the war ended, the ILWU made a concerted effort to protect the jobs of their Black workers. However, if Whites felt their jobs were threatened, then racism reared its head. The issue then was if the ILWU leadership would interfere in local autonomy to protect the rights of minorities. He believes that the ILWU used its influence to prevent discrimination on the national and local level, even when it was criticized for intervening. (19:54-21:36)... When he proposed the settlement involving the "Unemployed 500" in Local 13 of the ILWU, the Executive Board opposed the resolution. However, the democratic nature of the ILWU made it possible for the rank and file to override the Executive Board's decision and the settlement was approved by the membership unanimously. Margolis describes the conditions of the settlement; the "Unemployed 500" dropped their original claim for damages when the settlement was reached. (21:36-25:30)... Margolis discusses the role/influence of Walter Williams in the Black community. There were issues within the community, such as restrictive covenants and police brutality. Though the Roosevelt administration opened doors for Blacks, racial prejudice and discrimination in employment persisted. Nevertheless, Margolis believes that these changes should not be underestimated; opportunities that did not exist prior to WWII remained available for Blacks after the war. The people involved in opening job opportunities for Blacks during the War were also active figures in the Black community. (25:30-27:11)... The ILWU case involving the "Unemployed 500" did not threaten the union's tradition of seniority rule. Issues continue to plague the unions with regard to seniority, particularly in relation to a Black man taking the place of a White with many years of experience. The question is if Blacks should be given the opportunity to inherit seniority based on the fact that they have been discriminated against for so many years. (27:11-30:58)... He believes that sponsorship and passing work cards on to family members benefited many Blacks. However, this system was abandoned when labor legislation ruled that it was an illegal practice. Blacks wanted the same rights of sponsorship as whites. Many whites believed that their union card was synonymous with property and that their sons should inherit the right. Although this was a logical interpretation, it was not practical when so many people were denied equal access to employment. The composition of the union now includes an equal percentage of Chicanos, Blacks, and Anglos. end of tape (0:00-4:23)... Tape begins abruptly with a discussion of discrimination in the labor movement. Margolis believes that even where discrimination was vigorously fought, Blacks and Chicanos are underrepresented. He discusses his involvement in a restrictive covenant case involving Henry Laws. In addition to the NAACP, other organizations were active in addressing the issue of restrictive covenants. Lauren Miller, a Black lawyer, was the leader in arguing in the Supreme Court that restrictive covenants were unconstitutional. (4:23-5:53)... There is an interruption in this segment at the beginning and the conversation begins abruptly After 1945, he did not have any problems with Jim Crow locals in the Los Angeles area, but believes that very few existed in this area anyway. The James v Marin Ship case, as well as other local and national cases dealing with segregation, forced labor unions to treat Blacks equally. End of tape
- This is the single, short interview with Ben Margolis. Although he provided valuable information, he did not elaborate much on the issues being discussed. There is some background noise on the first half of the interview;Topics on this very short side of the tape include: involvement with restrictive covenant cases and desegregation of the unions; There is a brief interruption in one of the segments on this side of the tape;
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