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deFord, Miriam Allen (audio interview #1 of 3)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the first interview with Miriam Allen deFord, conducted in her rooms in the rather shabby hotel in which she had lived for more than thirty years in the heart of the San Francisco Tenderloin district. Because of her extreme deafness, there were times that she did not understand the questions. 3/6/1973
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- *** File: sufmadeford1.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:06)... Tape introduction (2:06-5:44)... deFord was born and raised in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; both of her parents were medical doctors who made their start in a heavily, industrialized area of northeast Philadelphia. She went to kindergarten at the neighborhood public school ,but when it was time for primary school, she moved to her grandmother's home in a more respectable part of the city. She graduated from a girls high school and did not leave the city until she went away to college. Her mother and father met while her father was teaching French. Her mother was eight years older than her father. Her father encouraged her mother's interest in attending medical school; however, her mother's family was not pleased with her decision to do so. Her parents attended different medical schools; her father graduated in 1886 and her mother in 1887. Her mother practiced medicine until her sixties when she lost her hearing. Her father's parents were from France and he was raised in an entirely French section of Philadelphia. Her mother's family had been in Philadelphia for seven generations and she was raised in a Quaker section of the city. Although her mother had several Quaker friends, she was not Quaker. DeFord was raised in a Unitarian household and does not recall her family actively practicing the religion. (5:44-7:32)... Her father supported feminist ideals; however, he refused to march in any parades for fear he would be the only man there. He advocated woman's suffrage and did not place any restrictions on de Ford, either physically or mentally. Her mother was a strong advocate of woman's suffrage, but was not involved in the movement because of career and family commitments. However, when deFord was fourteen years old, her mother sent her to the local suffrage headquarters to stuff envelopes. Her parents always hired a "girl" who cooked and cleaned for them, and when she was a child, her parents hired a nurse to care for the children. These women were usually Welsh coal miners' daughters from the coal mines of Pennsylvania. (7:32-10:26)... Although she did not use the term "feminism" at the time, her consciousness of women's issues developed around the age of six or seven years old after witnessing her Welsh nurse being physically beaten. She recalls feeling very angry and thinking that if she was strong enough, she would have gotten up and fought back. This was the first occasion that she saw old-fashioned male dominance; within her family, her mother ran the household and her father did what he was told. She believed that the man knocked this woman down simply because she was a woman. After this incident, she advocated woman's suffrage. (10:26-13:00)... Her mother was in favor of what is described today as women's liberation. As a medical doctor, she received the same pay as male medical doctors and there were never any discussions within her household that a woman was paid less than a man for the same work. At the time, it was unusual for a woman to have a professional career. Most of the office work was handled by male stenographers and working-class women worked as domestic servants. She recalls that the women who worked for her family often showed up for work with bruises on their face and body because their husbands would get drunk and beat them. These incidents made her very angry. (13:00-14:52)... She had a younger sister and brother. When she was five years old, she was sent to her grandmother's house and did not see her mother until her brother was born. Her mother did not nurse any of the children. By the time her brother was born, her mother had discontinued making house calls and her patients came to their home. This allowed her mother to coordinate her career with her household and childcare responsibilities. Her mother's office was located in the downstairs parlor of their home. Her mother and father never practiced medicine together because her mother did gynecological work, while her father was a general practitioner and later a urologist. (14:52-16:09)... Her mother was among the second generation of women doctors; her professors in medical college were the first. The Women's Medical College was established when her mother was only two years old. Her mother had to take certain courses at the Men's Medical College. The women were required to sit at the back of the class behind all of the men during their lessons. One day, a woman walked to the front of the class so that she could see the operation being performed; however, the male students and professors made it a very unpleasant experience for her and she did not return to the front of the class again. The male students resented studying medicine with women, and when women left the campus, the male students would heckle them. (16:09-18:38)... In terms of a professional career, her parents took it for granted that she would study medicine and inherit her parents' medical practice. However, at the age of twelve years, she decided she wanted to pursue a career in writing. Her siblings were also expected to pursue a professional career. There was never an expectation or discussion on how she would manage both her career and a family. Her sister never married and her parents were surprised when she married twice. It was a given that even if she married, she would continue her career. Her mother was very Victorian in terms of sex. There were never any discussions in the household about sexual procreation or reproduction. She learned about sexual subjects when she was approximately eight years old by reading her parents' medical books. (18:38-20:05)... Her parents were two of the very few Democrats within a very corrupt Republican city. She recalls that when they walked down the street people would yell "Democrat" at them. Her parents subscribed to the Record, which was a Democratic paper. Her mother's feminism did not develop out of a radical past. In fact, her mother and father were both dismayed by her radicalism. Although her mother never voiced these concerns, her father often wrote her letters saying that her "political affiliations were an example of her youthful exuberance" and that she would grow out of it. (20:05-22:19)... Although deFord's suffrage activities were limited after her first involvement with them at the age of fourteen, she met quite a few suffragists at the headquarters. When she was eighteen years old, she began working with the organization again and she marched in the national suffrage parade in New York. <break in tape> She does not recall seeing anyone else her age when she went to the suffrage headquarters at the age of fourteen, The women at the headquarters were very fond of her because she was so young. She believes that she acted as her mother's surrogate because her mother could not participate in any suffrage activities at the time. (22:19-26:27)... DeFord attended a girls high school in her neighborhood; there were no co-educational high schools in her area at the time. At the girls high school, there were three different educational tracks: for those who wanted to become teachers; and two different college preparatory groups tracks. She was in the scientific college preparatory track, which required four years of Latin and German. By this time, she decided she wanted to be a writer and took these college preparatory courses because it gave her an opportunity to take more English. Although she did not reject the idea of becoming a medical doctor, she ignored the subject and her parents did not persist because they believed she would not succeed in a field she did not enjoy. In contrast to her own high school education, deFord's grandmother was permitted only to attend high school on Saturday mornings. Her lessons included French, etiquette, and dancing. deFord's mother's high school education was cut short when her father died and she was forced to leave school to care for her younger siblings. (26:27-30:49)... She began writing when she was twelve years old and was recognized by a local newspaper for her work. After high school, she received a scholarship to Wellesley College, which only paid for her tuition. Her parents were unable to make up the difference,so her father sent her to a business college for six weeks instead. She then went to work for the Sunday department of one of the largest newspapers in the city, where she typed letters and did some feature writing. When she returned to this newspaper at a later time, she did feature writing and for a time ran the health and beauty column. She also answered letters and recalls an occasion when she opened a letter from a registered nurse who included a photograph of herself and asked the reader to determine if , "I know a gentleman." This was very embarrassing for her and her editor felt that there were some things an eighteen-year-old girl should not respond to. At the time, women engaged in sexual activity, but it was not talked about. (30:49-35:02)... She worked at the newspaper from November to the following September and then went to Wellesley College for her freshmen year. She then returned to the North American newspaper, where she worked as the assistant editor in the women's section for three years. After Wellesley, she enrolled in Temple University and took evening classes. During the summer, she took courses at the University of Pennsylvania so that she could graduate with her class. Prior to getting the position with the newspaper, she was a member of a social club associated with the newspaper. She met an editor of the newspaper who ultimately offered her a job. Meeting this woman, she realized that newspaper work gave her an opportunity to write. Once she was hired, a lot of her poems were published; she also wrote a series, "A Girl on a Big City Newspaper," a Baptist magazine. She based this on her experiences. (35:02-36:59)... At the time, there were very few women reporters working at the newspaper. She did not know if the women working at the newspaper were paid less than the men. Her first year with the newspaper she made $10 a week and the second year she made $15 a week. In comparison, the Sunday editor received $50 a week and another friend of hers made $23 a week. In general, women who worked at the newspaper did different work than men. (36:59-39:46)... Her freshman year at Wellesley she studied French, Greek, and advanced English. At the time, she was required to take mathematics, which was a very difficult subject for her. Before she graduated from Temple University, she took the algebra proficiency test three times until she finally passed. She graduated from Temple University with honors and a graduate scholarship to the University of Pennsylvania. However, she did not perceive college as something that would aid her writing career. (39:46-43:48)... When she thought about a career, she believed she could do whatever she wanted. She did not consider the pay when choosing her career because the wages at the time were bad for most people. One summer she worked in Boston and the office manager pulled her aside and told her she was making fifty cents more than the other women because she had a college education. Most of her professors at Wellesley College were women and unmarried, as were her high school teachers. At the time, women were expected to leave their jobs when they married. However, she did not have this attitude and refused to give up her career for marriage. The girls she knew at Wellesley College pursued careers in teaching and did not get married. The girls who did get married stopped working, while other girls she knew did not work or get married, but stayed home and cared for their parents. end of tape *** File: sufmadeford2.mp3 (0:00-1:20)... Temple University was a co-educational school and there were more men than women enrolled in her classes. The quality of teaching at Wellesley College, Temple University, and the University of Pennsylvania was very comparable. Although she had a good college experience, she was unhappy because at the young age of twenty, she had only one Saturday a month to herself. Her life was consumed by both her studies and work. (1:20-5:37)... During her years at Temple University, she worked for the North American Newspaper. She left the newspaper after four years when she moved to Boston, where she worked in several different jobs. She became a freelance writer when she moved to Boston, but was not able to support herself with this career until the 1940s. She supported herself by working different types of jobs, while continuing to write in her spare time. Her main concern was having a job that would pay her living expenses and provide her with enough time to write. At this time, the employees in the offices where she worked were women, with the exception of the bosses and the bookkeepers, positions usually held by men. (5:37-8:10)... During her first move to Boston, she was not involved in radical politics or any other type of activities. When she returned to Boston in 1912-1915, she began "soap boxing" (street speaking, standing atop a soap box crate) in support of suffrage. At that time, she also became the official reporter for an open speakers forum where she heard a lot of radical speakers. She also acted as a clerk for the town meetings, during which people would propose and discuss several different types of policies and political bills. When she met her husband, who was an anarchist, she became more radical. (8:10-10:58)... While in Boston, she lived in a home for self-supporting women, which was located in a very bad part of the city. The women usually shared a very small room; however, she did not share a room with anyone during her stay there. The women were fed breakfast and dinner while living at the home. There was a college settlement house across the street from the rooming house. The head of the rooming house was a woman by the name of Bertha Hazard, who was an active suffragist with the local suffrage organization. Hazard sent her to the suffrage headquarters to volunteer her efforts for the cause. The head of the suffrage group was Maud Park and deFord believes that the organization was the "Woman's Suffrage League." The suffrage group circulated a lot of literature and in the evenings, the streets were filled with women speaking atop soap boxes or small platforms on street corners. (10:58-14:16)... While soap boxing, suffragists passed out petitions. Initially, someone from the suffrage headquarters would give an introductory speech and then the scheduled speaker would stand up and give a speech on a prepared subject in addition to discussing the general argument for suffrage. The speeches lasted approximately fifteen minutes and then they answered questions posed by the audience. In general, the audience was made up people walking along the street at the time, which included both men and women. Some people went from one corner to another listening to the soap box speeches. Although there was never any physical violence towards the women, they received jeers and cat calls from the audience. During their speeches they were often heckled and interrupted as they spoke. This type of behavior was expected by the suffragists and they were trained on how to handle it. There were other women speaking on soap boxes at the same time as the suffragists. These women were mostly religious missionaries and did not pay any attention to the suffragists. Every speaker on the street had their own audience. (14:16-16:23)... The suffrage headquarters made a schedule for the speakers every week. She spoke at least once or twice per week. As each woman spoke, someone else from the suffrage group passed out literature to the audience. In addition to the suffrage argument, another topic was the right of women to control her own earnings. Their main suffrage argument focused on women getting the vote so that they could change things within society and politics. The first time she voted in an election was in 1916 when she moved to San Diego, California. (16:23-17:47)... She stayed in Boston until 1915 and then moved to San Diego after her fiance purchased a house there. Her husband was from Memphis, Tennessee, and was introduced to her by a friend she met at Ford Hall, a forum for radical speakers. She was hesitant to meet him because he was an anarchist. (17:47-20:16)... As a young woman, she had very little exposure to men. Although he never mentioned it to her, she believes her father feared at one time that she was a lesbian. However, she was simply not interested in men in the earlier part of her life. She did not discuss sex with anyone. Her mother was very prudish with Victorian ideals regarding sex. In fact, when she began physically developing, her mother was embarrassed and ashamed to discuss menstruation with her - even though her mother was a gynecologist and discussed these topics with her patients. (20:16-24:26)... Her experiences with and exposure to men was very limited up until the time she met her fiance. As a young girl, she did not talk about sexual subjects with her friends and she knew very few boys her age. She was very not observant about men's feelings towards her and was completely unaware when a man had a crush on her. She once slapped a man in the face for inappropriately kissing her. When she was living in Boston and became associated with Ford Hall, she met and became friends with Jack London. One evening he walked her home and proposed to her. She laughed and did not take him seriously because she did not know him very well, nor did she want to get married at the time. (24:26-27:18)... As a young adult, she went through a period of depression and was an outpatient in a psychiatric ward for a short time. As a result, she was not interested in marriage or the opposite sex. When she met and fell in love with her fiance, she had worked through her emotional problems. During this time, she was also getting a reputation for her writings, and her poetry was getting published in various magazines, including The Masses, New Masses, and The Liberator. Her writing was not supporting her at this time and she worked various clerical jobs to pay for her food, clothes, and living expenses. (27:18-31:29)... Her fiance was from a wealthy family in Memphis, Tennessee. His father owned a newspaper in Memphis and he previously worked as a journalist there. He was also an actor and played bit parts in films in Hollywood and San Diego. He was in the process of writing a philosophical book - which was still unfinished at the time of his death in 1948. When her husband proposed, he told her that if he married her he would not support her financially. She was happy with this arrangement because she did not want to sacrifice her career for marriage. They lived by the theory that monogamy was unnatural, which did not work to her advantage and she remained loyal to him while he continued to have affairs with several women. This ultimately ended their marriage. After Boston, they moved to San Diego where she worked as a public stenographer. They then moved to Los Angeles and she worked in several different clerical capacities. (31:29-34:01)... Very early in her life, she made a decision not to have children. She never liked children and believed that having children would interfere with her work, which was indicative of her feminist beliefs. As a little girl, she was very jealous of her brother when he was born. At the time, she thought her parents made a fuss about him because he was a boy; however, he was a very ill child, which explains their attention to him. When she saw her baby brother naked she thought he was deformed because he had a penis. As a result, she grew up thinking that all men were deformed. (34:01-38:03)... Her attitudes towards sex were not as Victorian as her mother's, mainly because of some sexual incidences that occurred when she was a child. In kindergarten, she recalls being sexually harassed by a group of boys. One boy in particular beat her head against a fence because she refused to show him her petticoat. In another incident, this boy forced her into the boys bathroom and asked her to remove her underwear. When she refused, another boy removed her underwear, at which time a teacher walked in. She was traumatized as a result of this incident, and as a young girl, believed she was raped by these boys. These incidences accounted for a lot of her attitudes towards men. (38:03-40:36)... When she married, she considered herself a "demi virgin" because she often spent weekends in the country with her fiance, during which they engaged in a lot of sexual activity. However, they did not have intercourse until she married. The relationship with her fiance was clandestine because her parents did not approve of him. Her father perceived her fiance as as a playboy with no real means of income. In fact, when her father learned they were having a relationship, he hired a detective to investigate her fiance. Her parents did not find out she was married until afterwards. She told her family she accepted a job in San Diego, where she moved and married her husband. (40:36-43:41)... In essence, her marriage and move to San Diego marked a new period in life, in which her political ideology and associations developed. Her husband was an anarchist and all of her friends were either anarchists or Wobblies (members of the IWW, Industrial Workers of the World). While in San Diego, she was given an opportunity to stand guard over a hall where Emma Goldman was to speak. She was no longer active in any suffrage activities when she moved to San Diego, because at that time California had granted women the right to vote. She began working for the Federated Press in 1920 and covered all of the radical activities taking place in California from that point on. end of tape
- SUBJECT BIO - Miriam Allen deFord, a well-known writer in San Francisco, began her suffrage involvement at the age of 14 in Philadelphia, where she was raised. In 1912-1915, she soap-boxed for suffrage in Boston. Following this period of her life, she moved to California with her first husband. Her activities centered around radical politics and her writing, although it wasn't until many years later that she was able to earn a sufficient living from her writing. In addition to writing for the Haldeman-Julius Little Blue Books with her second husband, deFord covered the labor scene in San Francisco. Approximately 7 hours were recorded with Miriam Allen deFord in 1973, two years before she died at age 90. A slight woman with thick glasses, she apparently had a difficult time with cataracts and had a hearing problem. Despite these disabilities, she was a very vigorous, lively, and intellectually curious 84-year-old woman at the time of the first two interviews with her. deFord was always cooperative and interested in providing whatever information we would find helpful. She spoke very rapidly and often laughed nervously. All the interviews took place in her suite at the Ambassador Hotel in the Tenderloin district of San Francisco. The hotel, which she claimed was a good second class hotel at one time, was rather dilapidated. Despite the run down condition of the hotel, her own rooms, were in good condition; she apparently made all of the repairs to the suite and furniture at her own expense. Her suite included a small room that she used as her study; it was quite cluttered with books and photographs and was obviously a place where a woman is quite busy at work. Indeed, at the time of the interviews, deFord was still very busy at her writing career and at the end of first interview proudly displayed an honorable mention she had recently received for some of her poetry. TOPICS - Topics covered on this side of the tape include: family background; childhood; early feminist consciousness and suffrage involvement; education; early newspaper work;Topics covered on this side of the tape include: education, newspaper work; move to Boston and introduction to radical circles; suffrage activity in Boston; attitudes toward sex, marriage; marriage;
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