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Rozner, Sarah (audio interview #16 of 20)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the fifth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. She seemed less tired than on the previous visit. TOPICS - formation of the Women's Local (275); organizing in Los Angeles; race and ethnic relations in Los Angeles; relationship with Bessie Abramovitz Hillman;operation and management of the Women's Local (275); election and experiences as a Business Agent; 5/24/1973
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- 2020-04-06
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- File: lhgwsrozner9.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-2:06)... Tape introduction. (2:06-10:50)... After seven women delegates to the Boston labor convention were defeated, Rozner began discussing the formation of a Women's Local. Her attempts to organize women into the Local focused on the goyim (non-Jews) because she felt they were smarter, a belief she held at that time. She often groomed an American woman or a Polish woman in an attempt to make them more class conscious. When she moved to Los Angeles and became a union organizer, she was exposed to both Mexican and African-American workers for the first time. Her knowledge of their cultures was very limited and she believes they were justified for not trusting "us." While attending Brookwood Labor College, she studied how "Negroes" were treated and their lack of access to education. When she started organizing these workers, they were initially reluctant; however, once she gained their confidence, she was well liked and they referred to her as "Sister Sarah." (10:50-14:04)... Although she did not organize the Women's Local alone, she considers herself the fire and inspiration behind its formation. She worked with Nettie Richardson to form the Local. Richardson was a communist who once accused Rozner of being too soft and conservative. Rozner's philosophy was labor unity and creating an environment where workers would have a better share of what they produced. When the initiative to form the Women's Local was launched, union officials decided to finance Rozner's delegation to the Boston labor convention. She views this as an attempt to bribe her into abandoning her efforts to organize the Women's Local. (14:04-15:03)... When she began organizing for the Women's Local, she typically visited women in their homes or spoke with them at the union hall and at union meetings. Although there were women from several Locals who joined the Women's Local, most came from Local 39 (Coat Makers), which was Rozner's local. She tried to get women from other Locals and industries to broaden the membership. (15:03-22:34)... She refers to an article about Bessie Hillman's contribution to women's progress within the union. However, Rozner contends that Hillman was opposed to the Women's Local and never joined the Local once it was formed. Hillman was associated with women at the Women's Trade Union League and Hull House. Even though Rozner and Hillman disagreed on many things, they remained friends. As with others, she did not impose her belief system on anyone else and respected people's differing opinions. Like other women in union positions, Hillman was window dressing and probably did not accomplish all of her goals in the union or with the Women's Trade Union League. (22:34-26:37)... The main reason why men opposed the Women's Local was because they did not want to lose any power. She believes that men are threatened by women because they are well trained and capable of succeeding in many areas. She digresses into a discussion about Ruth Miller, a woman she tried to prepare for the union experience. Rozner told Miller that she would encounter a lot of opposition from both men and women. At the time, Miller did not truly understand the extent of this opposition, but later admitted to Rozner that she was confronted with obstacles in the union. (26:37-31:06)... The Women's Local was comprised of women from several different industry Locals, each of which was entitled to a Business Agent to represent the local and the associated industry. For instance, when she worked as a Business Agent for the Coat Making industry, she represented all of the workers in a coat shop even if they were from different Locals. Even though she did not work as a Business Agent for the Women's Local, which held their meetings separate from the craft Locals, she tried to help women if they had problems with the union. This was part of her "feminine instinct." (31:06-36:02)... Initially, approximately 500 hundred women joined the Women's Local. At the time, there were anywhere between 30-45,000 women in the ACWA. Women were afraid to join the Women's Local because they did not want to suffer negative treatment by shop chairmans and local Business Agents, who typically made a woman's job more difficult when she transferred into the Local. (36:02-38:49)... Oftentimes, after talking with Rozner, women promised that they would join the Local, but then they would decide against it. Women faced obstacles in forming the Women's Local; there were very few women like herself who had the courage to pursue their goals. She recounts an incident when the union accused her of threatening women if they did not join the Women's Local. When she was called into Sam Levine's office to address these complaints, she confronted a man who previously had an affair with one of her friends. (38:49-42:24)... She does not recall any specific arguments leveled by men against the Women's Local; it was merely natural that men opposed the local because they were the ones in power. The majority of women followed this leadership; many women were naive, gullible, and unable to defend themselves against men, citing the case of a woman who was sexually harassed and then suspended on several occasions because she refused his advances. (42:24-46:04)... Only a small percentage of women in the ACWA were members of the Women's Local; the majority remained members of the other craft Locals. Rozner envisioned the Women's Local as a permanent Local within the union and believes that it would still be operating if she had stayed in Chicago. File: lhgwsrozner10.mp3 (0:00-0:42)... This segment begins abruptly with a continued discussion on the Women's Local. She believes that when people work at something for a long period of time they gain experience in that field and set goals for themselves even if they are idealistic. (0:42-4:31)... The members of the Women's Local were not all Jewish women. Rozner explains that she attempted to get the "other" element into the Women's Local; the Jewish women were not afraid to come into the women's local, so she made a greater effort to encourage the goyim to become members. (4:31-7:34)... The Women's Local was dedicated to education. Altough the ACWA was founded on the idea of educating workers, they drifted away from this ideal and spent less money on education than any other benefit in the union. When the Women's Local held educational programs, they invited workers from the other Locals. They also sponsored special fund-raising events and dances, to which all the workers were invited. (7:34-9:15)... When the Women's Local was formed, she became Vice-President, a member of the Board of Directors, and a member of the Joint Board. The Locals elect delegates to the Joint Board and those members, in turn, select the members of the Board of Directors. (9:15-12:39)... Initially, there were approximately 500 women who joined the Women's Local, but this number dwindled over the years when women stopped working and left the union, usually because they married. She does not recall any incidents of women simply leaving to transfer to another Local. At Local meetings, they discussed educational opportunities, shop issues, etc. Typically, workers' grievances were handled through the Grievance Board and if the worker was not satisfied with the solution, she could go to the Joint Board. The majority of women were reluctant to join the Local because they feared losing their job. (12:39-19:28)... In 1921, she became the woman Business Agent elected in the Coat Making industry. She was elected by the men, not the women. These men expected her to give them special treatment, but she told them otherwise. She was elected by the Coat Makers Locals 6, 38, 39, 269, 270, and 275, and she represented every Local within a coatmaking shop. If the chairman of the shop could not solve a worker's complaint, she was called for assistance. In Local 39, besides her, there were two male Business Agents. When she was elected as a Business Agent, she was no longer a member of the Joint Board, but was still able to contribute her opinion during Local meetings. (19:28-24:07)... She worked as a Business Agent for Hart, Schaffner, and Marx. In general, she handled disputes when the shop chairman contacted her when he was unable to find a solution. Typically, the shop chairman, or workers, came to her office with disputes. She made visits to the shop only when an investigation was required. At this time, Hart, Schaffner, and Marx had a policy that Business Agents could enter the shop only if they were accompanied by the Labor Manager. This policy made it very easy for shop managers and the other two Business Agents to humiliate her. For instance, while they were permitted to go into the shop by themselves and negotiate with the shop manager, she was not afforded the same opportunity. She eventually requested to be transferred from this shop because she could no longer tolerate this treatment. She then became the Business Agent for approximately twelve shops that were scattered all over the city. (24:07-30:36)... While working as a BA at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx, she recalls that the shop chairman in one department was sympathetic to how she was being treated and threatened to organize a work stoppage in support of her. The union managers did not do anything to stop this type of discrimination. She believes that they did not want her in the union because she was a woman and a rebel. She was not afraid to confront union officials with labor injustices and this made their jobs uncomfortable. (30:36-35:22)... When she was unable to solve disputes while working as a BA at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx, the case was taken to the Labor Board and the impartial chairman for a decision. When negotiations were being made for new union contracts, wages, etc., a committee handled these decisions in the beginning, but then these committees disbanded. Typically, the Business Agents made recommendations. When she worked as an organizer in Los Angeles, she often established rates and prices for the shops. The ACWA did not have Price Committees. If the shop manager did not agree with a price set by a Business Agent, he would take the case to the union manager and then the Trade Board. (35:22-36:30)... Although Business Agents were not permitted to be active members of the Joint Board, they were able verbalize their opinions and recommendations, which carried a lot of weight with the board. (36:30-40:06)... After she transferred out of Hart, Schaffner, and Marx and worked as a Business Agent for several small shops, she decided to go back to work in the shop. The Local re-elected her in 1923, but she did not accept the office. She worked for approximately one year before she attended Brookwood Labor College. She explains that she did not really want to work as a Business Agent for an extended amount of time, but wanted to break the ice so that other women could move into this position. (40:06-42:33)... She went to the convention in Philadelphia in1924 prior to attending Brookwood Labor College. This leads her to discuss some of her experiences at Brookwood Labor College, particularly in reference to sports. (42:33-43:59)... She does not recall any remarkable issues concerning women during the 1922 convention in Chicago, . A major theme at this convention was Hillman's return from Russia. Her general philosophy towards labor conventions is that they are not as important as working. (43:59-45:36)... In 1922, she made plans to travel to the Soviet Union with a group of people. They purchased a truck and some sewing machinery with the intention to teach Russians the garment trade in Russia. However, when these plans were canceled, she was pleased because she wanted to become an American citizen. It was difficult to gain citizenship and she applied three times. She was finally successful after telling the citizenship office that she wanted to die a good American citizen.
- SUBJECT BIO - Sarah Rozner joined the ranks of the labor movement the minute she set foot on US soil and began working in men's clothing in Chicago just prior to the 1910 strike. She organized practically every shop in which she worked - unless she was fired first - and was particularly interested in mobilizing women and helping them to assert their rights. Her woman/feminist consciousness led her to work on the establishment of a Woman's Local of the ACWA in Chicago (Local 275). She worked with other women in the ACWA to establish a Woman's Bureau, but did not succeed. She became one of the first women Business Agents in tailoring in Chicago in 1921, and held various positions in the shops and in the union. When she moved to Los Angeles in 1938, she continued to organize at the shop level, establishing education programs for workers at Louart. She continued to advocate for women, and when she retired in 1959, she established a scholarship for women. Even after her retirement, Rozner remained involved with the union, became a member of CLUW (Coalition of Labor Women) after its formation, and remained outspoken on women's issues, particularly in the labor movement. The interviews with Rozner totaled almost hours, divided fairly evenly between her activities in Chicago and in Los Angeles. She was interviewed as part of the Feminist History Research Project labor series, referred by the ACWA. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the fifth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. She seemed less tired than on the previous visit. TOPICS - formation of the Women's Local (275); organizing in Los Angeles; race and ethnic relations in Los Angeles; relationship with Bessie Abramovitz Hillman;operation and management of the Women's Local (275); election and experiences as a Business Agent;
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