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Rozner, Sarah (audio interview #19 of 20)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the eighth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. It was an extremely hot and smoggy day, but the weather seemed to agree with Rozner and she was in good spirits compared to the previous interview when she was not feeling well. TOPICS - formation of ACWA Women's Bureau; ACWA conventions in 1918, 1922, 1924, and 1926; issue of seating Rozner as delegate to 1926 convention; attitudes toward ILGWU and relationship with Rose Pesotta;relationship with other women organizers in ACWA; Socialist Party; her political campaign for Alderman; and the political climate in the union; 6/20/1973
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- 2020-04-06
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- SUBJECT BIO - Sarah Rozner joined the ranks of the labor movement the minute she set foot on US soil and began working in men's clothing in Chicago just prior to the 1910 strike. She organized practically every shop in which she worked - unless she was fired first - and was particularly interested in mobilizing women and helping them to assert their rights. Her woman/feminist consciousness led her to work on the establishment of a Woman's Local of the ACWA in Chicago (Local 275). She worked with other women in the ACWA to establish a Woman's Bureau, but did not succeed. She became one of the first women Business Agents in tailoring in Chicago in 1921, and held various positions in the shops and in the union. When she moved to Los Angeles in 1938, she continued to organize at the shop level, establishing education programs for workers at Louart. She continued to advocate for women, and when she retired in 1959, she established a scholarship for women. Even after her retirement, Rozner remained involved with the union, became a member of CLUW (Coalition of Labor Women) after its formation, and remained outspoken on women's issues, particularly in the labor movement. The interviews with Rozner totaled almost hours, divided fairly evenly between her activities in Chicago and in Los Angeles. She was interviewed as part of the Feminist History Research Project labor series, referred by the ACWA. INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the eighth interview with Sarah Rozner conducted in her home. It was an extremely hot and smoggy day, but the weather seemed to agree with Rozner and she was in good spirits compared to the previous interview when she was not feeling well. TOPICS - formation of ACWA Women's Bureau; ACWA conventions in 1918, 1922, 1924, and 1926; issue of seating Rozner as delegate to 1926 convention; attitudes toward ILGWU and relationship with Rose Pesotta;relationship with other women organizers in ACWA; Socialist Party; her political campaign for Alderman; and the political climate in the union;
- File: lhgwsrozner15.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-1:40)... Tape introduction. (1:40-9:29)... This segment provides a review of the events that transpired during the various ACWA conventions concerning the formation of a Women's Bureau. Rozner disagrees that a resolution was passed at the 1922 convention for equal pay for equal work. On the topic, however, she comments that women completed tedious finishing work for very little pay, and that this work is type of work was just as difficult as cutting. Nevertheless, the cutters were considered an elite section of the labor force and paid higher wages than women in other positions. In general, she believes that work was separated along gender lines. For instance, in New York, no women worked on factory machines. However, when women and men did complete the same work, they received the same pay. Yet, whenever a woman worked on a machine and received a decent rate, she was taken off of the machine and replaced by a man. In relation to the issue of the Women's Bureau, she recalls asking Mamie Santora to talk to Hillman and insist that a Women's Bureau be created at the next convention. Hillman reportedly told Santora that he knew better than Rozner what was best for women. (9:29-18:22)... During the 1928 convention in Cincinnati, Rozner was on the Labels Committee. She reiterates that she passed out at the convention because she was still ill from her surgery. She reviews events at the convention, particularly the introduction of a resolution for a Women's Bureau by Local 275. She recalls that Anna Schwartz Rosen objected to the formation of a Women's Bureau despite the face that she had called for a similar resolution two years earlier. Prior to the convention, Clara Leon was instructed not to permit Rozner to attend, but women in Local 275 disagreed, arguing that Rozner was the only person who could represent their wishes. The opposition to appointing her a delegate argued that since she attended the previous convention, she was not eligible for the 1928 convention. However, Rozner insisted on going to the convention and even volunteered to pay her own way. (18:22-30:36)... She does not recall either Schwartz's or Hillman's speech because she passed out directly after her own speech and was unaware of her surroundings after that. She wanted a progressive union. She believes that women required more protection and a better education because they were enslaved for so many centuries. During her years at Brookwood Labor College, very few efforts were made to improve conditions for women. Although she attempted to set an example for women as a Business Agent, she did not want to monopolize this position. She encouraged women to pursue positions on the Joint Board and as Business Agents, but believes that when women she recommended tried to gain these positions, union officials questioned their capabilities. In contrast, Clara Leon (Local 275 President ) did not have any intentions of preparing or grooming any female successors to replace her, and as a result, Local 275 disbanded when Leon died. When Rozner returned from Brookwood Labor College, she immediately concentrated her efforts on getting a Women's Bureau started. She recalls traveling to Rochester and Baltimore, coordinating groups of women and steering the movement for a Women's Bureau. People often discouraged her by telling her she was not a lady because she drank and smoked. She was also physically accosted and suspended from work on several occasions because of her efforts to help women in the union. (30:36-34:20)... At the 1928 convention, she did not have overwhelming support for the resolution for a Women's Bureau. Even the delegation from Local 275 was scared to support it. When she made a motion to the Joint Board for a Women's Bureau, no one seconded the resolution; this was very difficult for her to accept. She wanted to help the workers, but fought harder for the women because they needed assistance. Her main goal was to see that women take their proper places in the union, which were well deserved. However, women neither wanted these positions, nor pursued them. (34:20-40:41)... She does not recall any other unions fighting for a Women's Bureau and recalls that the ILGWU was worse off than the ACWA because the ILGWU was comprised of 98 percent women, but all of the union leaders were males. The Cigar Makers (AFL) did not allow any women to become members, but then employed women to operate the machinery in this industry. When they then attempted to organize the women, they did not want to join the union because they were previously shut out. She broke ground in several areas not previously occupied by women. For instance, when she became a chairlady [sic] at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx, she became a sleeve sewer and then other women took her lead and moved into this skill. Although women received the same pay as men for the same work, she argued that women were underpaid for the positions in which they dominated. (40:41-41:39)... Rozner describes Rose Pesotta as an idealist with a beautiful soul. She does not to believe that Pesotta was permitted to go too far with women's issues in the ILGWU. When Pesotta died, the union did very little in her honor. Even though Pesotta was on the Executive Board of the ILGWU, people treated her very poorly. Rozner believes that ILGWU union leaders wanted to get rid of Pesotta and made her life miserable. The very few women who did make an effort in the unions were confronted with obstacles and their struggle was particularly difficult. Although these women sacrificed a lot, Rozner does not believe that she sacrificed anything because she loved her work in the ACWA. end of tape [Note: tape continues past the end of the recorded segment] File: lhgwsrozner16.mp3 (0:00-3:22)... Rozner describes Anna Snyder as an old maid and a nice, clean-cut American, who she wanted to become president of the Women's Local. When Rozner went to Brookwood Labor College, Snyder took on some positions in 275. Rozner notes that she did not really encourage Jewish women to go into any union positions because she figured they could take care of themselves. Rae Levin acted as Rozner's secretary and Anna Liegler (sp??) was the secretary of Local 275. (3:22-13:06)... Rozner met Hilda Shapiro in 1918 during a Local 39 meeting. She describes Shapiro as a selfless person who shared everything she had, even though it was very little. She was a member of Local 275 after it was organized and then went to Bryn Mawr College in 1920. When Shapiro left Chicago and moved to San Francisco, she worked as a union organizer. She then married a pocketmaker and went back to work in the shop. tape interruption (13:06-23:41)... In 1930, Rozner grew tired of the abuse she received at the hands of the union and decided to move to Los Angeles and rest. She believed that Shapiro was having a baby and wanted to be there. Against her wishes, the union provided her with a roundtrip train ticket to Los Angeles. When she arrived in Los Angeles, she made contact with Shapiro, who took Rozner to the YWCA. She then moved to Long Beach and rented a small apartment for $30. She became very ill and finally sought medical treatment. It took her approximately three weeks to recover. She stayed in Los Angeles for three months and then returned to Chicago refreshed and ready to resume her fight against the union. (23:41-26:31)... In 1928, she joined the Socialist Party. At the time, she was the Chairman of her Socialist Party branch and President of Local 275. She remained active with the union and admits that she would not sacrifice her union activities for the Socialist Party. Local 275 was affiliated with the Socialist Party. (26:31-35:57)... She felt very honored when she was asked to campaign for Alderman on SP ticket. She knew that she would not get elected to this office because many socialists were not elected at this time. Names were collected in support of placing her on the ballot. She campaigned on street corners and recalls that she was the only woman running at that time. People often laughed at her and told her to go home and wash the dishes. [Note: there is a long digression about her father and his reaction to her politics and activities.] She did not receive any votes and was not put on the ballot because the authorities would not recognize any of the names collected. This happened to all of the socialist candidates. However, she was elected in her branch, which comprised approximately 70-80 people. Although the members of Local 275 did not attend the SP meetings, they contributed to the party. [She trails off, with several comments that do not have a clear focus.] (35:57-38:19)... She recalls posting a picture of Norman Thomas in her vehicle, at which time several of the workers at Hart, Schaffner, and Marx threatened to break her car windows. She warned them not to and nothing happened. She believes that her tough front carried her during these kinds of difficulties. Although the union fought for justice and equality, some people were very rude to her even when they knew her background and involvement with union activities. (38:19-40:16)... The union did not endorse the Democratic Party, but generally voted for candidates who were pro-labor. It also supported Hillman when he went to the White House, but she lost confidence in him as a result of his activities. The union did not support her when she ran as an Alderman on the socialist platform. She protested the union's support of Democratic Party in 1936 - challenged it, with "what are we trying to do, put a patch on this thing?" (40:16-45:46)... When Norman Thomas organized a trip to the Continental Congress, she attended along with several other Business Agents and the assistant manager of the Joint Board of the ACWA. They all traveled in a private train compartment. The purpose of the Congress was to attempt to re-establish the principles of the US Constitution. Thinking back, she does not believe that this trip was very important and contends that evolution would bring about a revolution only if people helped evolution along. She recalls that when she was on this trip, she went to lunch with a Black woman, but the restaurant refused to serve this woman. Rozner was outraged, particularly because it this happened in the nation's capital. End of tape
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