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Dollinger, Genora (Johnson) (audio interview #3 of 8)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - This is the third of eight interviews conducted with Genora Dollinger in the sunny den of her home. She had becoming increasingly trusting as the interviews progressed, finally reassured that I had no particular stake in the factional and sectarian divisions that mark UAW history. 9/1/1976
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- SUBJECT BIO - Genora Johnson Dollinger is best known for her role in forming the Women's Emergency Brigade (of the UAW) during the Flint strike, 1936-7. Born to a relatively prominent and affluent family in Flint, Dollinger developed a heightened sense of women's subjugation as a result of her father's treatment of both his wife and daughters. She became interested in socialism through discussions with Carl Johnson, the father of her future husband, auto worker Kermit Johnson. She married Kermit Johnson over her parents objections, and they had two sons, both of whom were later killed in a car accident. Together with her husband and father-in-law, Dolliinger helped to build the Socialist Party (SP) in Flint, which became one of the organizing avenues for the 1936 strike. After the strike began, frustrated with the traditional roles to which she was initially relegated, Dollinger formed the Women's Emergency Brigade, a militant group of women popularized in the documentary, With Babies and Banners. Dollinger remained active in the UAW following the strike. Later, during the war, and after her marriage to Sol Dollinger, she went to work in Detroit at Briggs Manufacturing. She was badly beaten later, in the postwar years, during the vicious anti-union campaign organized by the manufacturers. While still in Michigan, she became active in the Socialist Workers Party (SWP), worked for the ACLU, and continued to be involved in the UAW. The Dollingers moved to Los Angeles in 1967, when her third son was fourteen years old. Despite her growing health problems, she remained active in a host of liberal and progressive causes and heaped to form the Community Advisory Councils of the LA Unified School District. In 1977, on the occasion of the 40th anniversary of the Flint strike, Dollinger returned to Michigan and, despite her health problems, led a protest against the slighting of women's role in the strike. After her death in 1995, Sol Dollinger published their jointly authored book, Not Automatic: Women and the Left in the Forging of the Auto Workers Union (Monthly Review Press, 2000), which includes an oral history of Genora by Susan Rosenthal. TOPICS - YPSL uniform; children's picket line; Women's Auxiliary; Fisher Body plant sit-downs; impact of strike on marriages; picketing at Fisher Body Plant No; 2; tactics, Fisher Body plants; stool pigeons; violence against picketers; scabs; IWW influence; JC Penny strike; Women's Emergency Brigade; anti-union publicity; and interview with reporter from Flint Journal;community attitudes towards and publicity regarding Women's Emergency Brigade; backgrounds of women in brigade; "back-to-work movement" at Chevrolet plants; Workers Alliance; UAW-GM negotiations, Detroit; Kermit Johnson's plan for strike; Walter Reuther; SP negotiations re strike plan; events at Chevrolet Plant No; 9; and action of Women's Emergency Brigade;sit-down at Chevrolet Plant No; 4; role and actions of Women's Emergency Brigade, confrontation with Flint Police; declaration of martial law;confrontations with militia; strike efforts at Fisher Body Plant No; ; John L; Lewis; provisioning for strikers; WEB as communication conduit for families; race relations; victory celebrations; and attitudes of workers towards UAW-GM strike resolution;attitudes about UAW-GM strike resolution; SP factionalism; Homer Martin; Jay Lovestone; SP recruitment during strike; speaking tour on the east coast; tuberculosis relapse and treatment; dissolution of WEB; marital relationship; Kermit Johnson; Carl Johnson; Trotskyites;and Clarityites;
- *** File: lhgdollinger8.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:04-6:26)... Dollinger drew on her experiences in YPSL to come up with the idea for a children's picket line, recalling how the members once attended a baseball game wearing a uniform of a workingman's blue shirt, red tie and navy blue skirts or pants. This created interest among youngsters and captured the attention of adults. She believed that a similar action by children of strikers would both serve the interests of adults and give the children an opportunity to express themselves. At the same time it would garner publicity for the labor movement in Flint. Plans she had for mobilizing teenagers into a picket line didn't come to fruition because the momentum of the strike outpaced them. (6:26-8:22)... Dollinger hoped the children's picket line would appeal to women and bring them into the movement. Prior to Flint gaining recognition for its efforts to unionize GM plants, media attention focused on strikes taking place in the automobile industry in other parts of the nation. The Flint Journal was the primary paper in the city and was widely distributed outside Flint. Because the paper was critical of the union, Dollinger had to be careful how the children were treated and represented on the picket line. There were instances when it was unsafe for children to be picketing and it was difficult for parents to protect their children considering their own strike obligations. (8:22-12:08)... Responding to a question about the origin of the Women's Auxiliary growing out of events at Fisher Body Plant No. 1, Dollinger notes that she was not involved in the efforts at that plant. She concentrated on Fisher Body Plant No. 2 where more assistance was needed. When the wives of the sit-downers came to the plant and threatened to leave their husbands if they did not come home, Dollinger realized that the women could break the strike. Indeed, several men abandoned the sit-down to save their marriages. (12:08-15:17)... The number of people picketing outside Fisher Body Plant No. 2 varied. The late shift was covered by "picket sentinels" who were given assignments in the event that action was taken against men in the plant. They were to call in reinforcements at the union headquarters where people stayed overnight. The morning picketers usually arrived at 6:00 a.m. They picketed in intervals of two or three hours. Announcements were made over the loud speaker at the union hall notifying people of cars leaving for the various picket sites. Up to the Battle of Bull's Run, Dollinger split her time between picketing at Fisher Body Plant No. 2 and meeting with women at the union hall. The children's picket line was stationed outside Fisher Body Plant No. 1 because it had the largest force and got more publicity. (15:17-17:54)... Dollinger left the Pengelly Building and made her way to Fisher Body Plant No. 2 when the Battle of Bull's Run began. Up to then, there was no hand-to-hand contact between picketers and the city police or company guards. The only physical confrontations that took place until then were in the beer gardens between stool pigeons and pro-union workers. At one point during the strike, Dollinger was assigned an escort after her name was mentioned during a meeting. Threats also were made against women when they started wearing their red berets and armbands outside the strike area. (17:54-20:30)... Following the Battle of Bull's Run and prior to the strike at Chevrolet Plant No. 4, there were several incidences on the picket line of people being shoved by the police and/or company security or flipped over by jujitsu masters hired by the factories. These actions would happen so fast that the perpetrator frequently went undetected and unidentified, which created a volatile environment on the picket line and provoked fights among picketers themselves. Dollinger recalls getting involved in a confrontation with a police officer during which she ripped his badge off his uniform. (20:30-25:19)... Workers who were anti-union and supplied information to the factory or joined the Worker's Alliance were referred to as scabs or scissorbills - a term adopted from the Wobblies in the ranks of the strikers - many of whom were painters. Dollinger notes that although there were only a few Wobblies among the workers, "they were so far advanced over the vast majority of the workers that they stood out and their phrases were picked up." Clayton Carpenter of the Proletarian Party used this kind of colorful language, too. (25:19-26:40)... Socialists did not discuss politics or their ideological views while organizing workers, but appealed to them in economic terms. Similarly, GM propaganda emphasized the economic impact of the strike by telling people that it was "taking the food out of the mouths of your babies." (26:40-29:45)... The Women's Emergency Brigade responded to incidents that took place at other workplaces, not just the automobile factories. When other workers in the city organized and joined Local 156, the brigade was at their disposal. The president of the transport workers, Fred Stevens, was helpful in mobilizing the workforce, explaining the connections between the automobile industry and the transport industry. (29:45-31:40)... When workers at JC Penneys organized a sit-down strike, they contacted the UAW and requested reinforcements. Announcements were made over the loud speaker that cars would be leaving for the store, and the Women's Emergency Brigade mobilized. (31:40-37:25)... As other industries in Flint began organizing along with GM plants, Dollinger thought that "industrial unionism would sweep the country." She was very idealistic and felt that workers were united in their efforts to unionize the city. Unionists agreed that once the big industries were organized, they would turn their attention towards weaker industries and "then out of that they would have some kind of voice in running the government like a labor party." Dollinger hoped that socialism would develop through the political process, as well as education and awareness of the workforce. Following WWII, a political movement was organized by labor leaders in the form of the Michigan Commonwealth Federation and she thought that she would socialism in her lifetime. The focus of the labor movement at that time was to gain union recognition and tighten the union's control over corporations. They were not thinking about taking over the means of production at that time. (37:25-42:15)... The anti-union forces in the community viewed women in the brigade as dangerous and radical women. The Ladies Aid Societies looked askance at the brigadiers, but when women came to the headquarters and met the brigadiers, they realized they were ordinary women like themselves and their attitudes changed. The union's only method of counteracting bad publicity was to propagandize their efforts and provide information to the public from their sound cars. End of tape. *** File: lhgdollinger9.mp3 (0:05-1:44)... Several years after the strike, Dollinger was asked to assist the Flint librarian, Bill Chase, in labeling photographs and articles published in the Flint Journal. Through their research, they discovered that a substantial amount of these documents were either stolen or destroyed. (1:44-3:22)... Women in the brigade were distinguished from other women in the community by their red berets and armbands. Photographs of them were frequently featured in the local newspapers as well as papers in Detroit. They also were talked about on radio programs, referred to as "wild screaming women and unruly amazons." (3:22-8:52)... Although the women in the emergency brigade had stronger ties than those in the auxiliary, they were unable to develop close bonds because they rarely worked with the same women on assignments. The short duration of the strike also was not conducive to establishing permanent friendships, particularly because the women returned to their homes and did not stay in contact with each other. Although there were close to 500 women in the brigade fewer than 100 reported for duty at any given time. The only opportunity brigadiers had to get acquainted with each other was during short periods on the picket line or coffee breaks. Even though Dollinger talked to the women on an individual basis as they joined the brigade, she did not get to know them on a personal level. (8:52-10:20)... Dollinger was not generally suspicious that there were spies in either the brigade of the auxiliary. Factory agents occasionally threatened women that their husbands would be fired if they did not cease their activities with the auxiliary or the brigade. However, it was more difficult to find ammunition against women than men and that is where spies were most prominent. (10:20-15:48)... There were only about twenty women in the brigade or auxiliary who have a political consciousness. The rest of the women mainly saw themselves as meeting immediate needs, not building industrial unionism. Dollinger arranged for women to attend mass meetings where prominent labor activists were scheduled to speak in order to educate them because they were generally uneducated, dominated by their husbands, and isolated in the home. Their only outlet prior to getting involved in the union movement was going to recreational functions organized by GM. (15:48-19:31)... The women in the emergency brigade and the auxiliary viewed her differently because her family and better educational background and living conditions. Also, she knew the labor leaders on a first-name basis and spoke to them on an equal level, she was bothered by people viewing her with the same admiration as they did union leaders. Although her pronunciation and language skills distinguished her from the other women, she consciously used union terms and phrases that were familiar to the working class. (19:31-28:27)... The "back-to-work movement" and the Workers Alliance succeeded in breaking the morale of auto work strikers. Although people returned to work in Chevrolet plants, many of the unionists continued to participate in picketing efforts after work. Kermit Johnson and others began talking about ways to take over Chevrolet Plant No. 4, and Kermit submitted a plan to the strike committee of Local 156 for entering the plant and locking it down. While this discussion was taking place, UAW leaders in Detroit were attempting to negotiate a settlement with GM, and although people continued to picket at the two striking plants, but there was a lull in UAW activity. At Kermit's suggestion, the strike committee decided to consider a sit-down strike at Chevrolet Plant No. 9. (28:27-34:41)... Roy Reuther was the primary opponent of the plan to initiate a sit-down strike at Chevrolet Plant No. 4 while using Chevrolet Plant No. 9 as a decoy. The SP met to discuss the plan at the same time that the Reuthers and state organizer John Monarch, along with socialists from Detroit, came to Flint to participate in the negotiations. When Kermit's action plan was voted down by a very slim margin, Walter Reuther told the advocates of the plan: "You've never been in a labor situation or a strike situation.... It took the AFL fifty years before it was recognized and you got to learn to creep before you could walk." That evening, Dollinger wrote a letter to Norman Thomas about the incident and he forwarded it to the national labor secretary of the SP in Chicago. The labor secretary came to Flint, and after meeting with the proponents and opponents of the plan in the SP, as well as with the auto workers, he decided that the plan should go forward. Dollinger claims that he called the plan "probably the most brilliant labor strategy of the 20th Century." (34:41-41:07)... Only the leaders in Local 156 and the SP knew about the plans to take over Chevrolet Plants No. 4 and No. 9, and Dollinger was instructed not to call in an emergency unit of brigadiers in order to keep their efforts quiet. Instead, word was spread that more women were wanted at the union headquarters to keep activities going while negotiations were taking place in Detroit. An announcement was made at union headquarters that a force was being sent to plant 9 because there were rumors of violence. When workers and plant police began to scuffle inside the plant, one of the men broke out one of the windows. This was Dollinger's signal to get the brigadiers into action, and they began breaking the plant's windows. At some point, she dismissed the brigadiers to make it seem like they had lost. Dollinger describes what transpired at Plant 9, noting that the purpose of this incident was to divert plant police and city authorities from Plant 4, which is where the sit-down was going to be initiated. End of tape. *** File: lhgdollinger10.mp3 (0:00-7:54)... Following the incident at Chevrolet Plant No. 9, Dollinger dismissed sent the brigade back to the Pengelly Building, while she and her lieutenants went to Chevrolet Plant No. 4. Workers were throwing scabs out and attempting to barricade the plant. Kermit Johnson yelled for her and the brigadiers to guard the front gate. Dollinger details the developments outside the plant, including the confrontation with the police. The small group of brigadiers locked arms to block the police, and others came rushing in and formed a picket line. They were joined a few minutes later by a sound car and several men. (7:54-11:26)... Initially, there was no contact with the men orchestrating the sit-down strike in Chevrolet Plant No. 4, but as more unionists made their way to the plant, some climbed over the fence in an attempt to get into the plant, including Walter Reuther. The news about what was happening inside the plant made its way to the picket line. At dusk, martial law was declared and the picket lines were dispersed. The governor negotiated with the UAW to permit food to be sent into the workers. The only recourse GM had at that time was to turn the heat off in the plant. (11:26-13:43)... As documented in Sidney Fine's book, Kermit Johnson and a group of men hid in the restroom during the shift change so that more men would be in the plant when the sit-down took place. It was also deemed important for picketers to maintain a presence at the gate because the company had a stockpile of arms in the personnel building. When martial law was declared, the militia instructed picketers to disperse. Some of the militia men were as young as fifteen and sixteen, and were nervous on the trigger, making it a dangerous situation. (13:43-18:00)... Once martial law was declared at the Chevrolet compound and picketers retreated, they turned their attention to Fisher Body Plant No. 1. The union's activities at Fisher Body Plant No. 1 were well publicized and buoyed the efforts of strikers at smaller plants in and around Flint. In the mean time, unionists anxiously awaited the results of negotiations taking place in Detroit. Dollinger comments on John L. Lewis's role during the strike and the literature that has been published regarding the Chevrolet sit down. (18:00-19:19)... Workers believed that Governor Murphy's background as a judge would make him impartial during the negotiations, and even hoped that he would be favorably disposed towards the union. After martial law was declared and the militia came in, the workers felt that things were out of their control at Chevrolet. At Fisher Body Plant No. 1, however, they wanted to maintain a "hands off" impression. (19:19-24:33)... During the sit-down strike at Chevrolet Plant No. 4, people communicated with workers inside the plant on a regular basis, and supplied them with food and blankets. The doctor who was sent into the plant when several of the men became ill as a result of the lack of heat diagnosed pneumonia and ordered the sick men out. The union sent in their own doctor who prescribed medication for the sick men and saw no reason for the men to be sent home. Approximately 24-30 hours after the strike began, Kermit Johnson instructed the men to bang on the equipment in an attempt to get GM to turn the heat back on. The men were extremely concerned about their families during the strike and wrote letters to them, which were sent to the women through the emergency brigade. Women survived during the strike without their husbands through food donations from the union as well as support from their relatives. (24:33-26:49)... There were strike committees at Fisher Body Plant No. 1 as well as at the Chevrolet plans. The most common problem during the sit down was boredom among the workers. In addition to practicing their public speaking skills, the men organized a choir in the plant. Compared to the Fisher Body plant, the men at Chevrolet were isolated. She believes there were less than 100 men who participated in the sit-down strike out of 14,000 employees. (26:49-29:00)... Once the sit-down strike at Chevrolet was publicized, the morale at the other GM plants went up, in Detroit as well as Flint. Between the time martial law was declared and negotiations were initiated, there was no further action outside Plant 4. Much to the relief of Flint autoworkers, Ford and Chrysler did not unite behind GM and used the opportunity to produce and sell more cars. (29:00-37:19)... When workers began banging on the pipes in response to Chevrolet turning off the heat, they did not intend to sabotage the equipment; they were planning on returning to work and didn't want bad working conditions. Dollinger discusses two Blacks who were employed in a custodial capacity at Plant 4, one of whom (Roscoe) was the only Black involved in a sit-down strike in all of Flint. Initially, he remained separate from the White workers, but was eventually welcomed into the circle of the sit-downers and helped them develop a understanding of race relations. After the strike, Roscoe was honored by the Black community. (37:19-40:14)... Dollinger describes the atmosphere in Flint when Chevrolet and Fisher Body plants were evacuated at the end of the strike. Although the anti-union people in the Worker's Alliance were bitter, there were widespread celebrations, which included not only the workers at Fisher Body and Chevrolet, but transit workers and department store clerks, as well as many others who had never joined the picket lines or who had only lukewarm feelings about the union. (40:14-42:35)... It was an important milestone for the auto workers of Flint when the UAW was recognized by GM. There was a small faction of militants who were not happy with the UAW-GM negotiations, but "the majority of people did not feel that they sold out and felt that they had accomplished more than expected." End of tape. *** File: lhgdollinger11.mp3 (0:06-1:38)... Besides the elation of victory, there was a tremendous sense of relief that the strike was over because it wasn't clear how much longer they could have continued given the hardships people were experiencing. Once the agreement was completed, people flocked to UAW headquarters to join the union. Shop stewards also kept busy signing people up in the plant. (1:38-2:35)... Dollinger viewed the resolution with GM as a real victory for industrial unionism. Their next target was to organize autoworkers at Chrysler and then Ford, which was considered the most difficult company to unionize. However, with the experience under their belt, she was confident they would be successful and remained optimistic about the promise of industrial unionism. (2:35-9:58)... After the strike was settled, although Bob Travis and CP organizers left Flint, they remained a strong influence in the CIO. The base of power for the CP was in the foreign-born section on the north end of Flint, but they had little influence over union policies in the plants where they had members. The main political factions in the Flint UAW were the Lovestonites and the SP. During the strike, the Lovestonites sent organizers into Flint to recruit people, but the state organization of the SP mandated that no recruitment be done during the strike. They didn't want to appear to be involved in the struggle for the purposes of recruitment. Nevertheless, their membership increased during the strike. (9:58-13:20)... When the strike ended, Dollinger was asked to go on a speaking tour that was organized by the SP, with expenses paid by the union. The purpose of the tour was to share her experiences in the Flint auto workers' strike with other unions on the East Coast. (13:20-15:10)... When Dollinger returned to Flint, she assumed the vice presidency of the Women's Auxiliary. During one of their meetings, she collapsed and was admitted to a sanitarium for six months. While she was on her speaking tour, a demonstration was organized by Roy Reuther, Kermit Johnson, and others during which official thanks was given to the Women's Emergency Brigade, which was then disbanded. Roy spoke on behalf of the brigade and announced that the Women's Auxiliary would continue to operate. Dollinger believes this was the last of the mass meetings held by the UAW in Flint. After that, the different plants began organizing separate locals and meeting on their own. (15:10-19:51)... Dollinger talked about the roles of the Women's Auxiliary and the Women's Emergency Brigade in the Flint sit-down strike on her speaking tour, wearing her red beret and armband. She was well-received by both men and women in the audience, particularly when she spoke to garment workers. Even though she knew that women were capable of many things, she "never believed that women who were so isolated could perform so miraculously as they did" during the strike. She recounts the atmosphere in New York City while speaking to a crowd on May Day. (19:51-21:10)... According to Dollinger, the CP organizers left Flint when the strike ended, but there were still communists in the union. She may have given some testimony to a committee during the strike, but she could not recall any specifics. (21:10-25:53)... Dollinger and Kermit Johnson began experiencing marital difficulties during the strike, and the relationship was further strained while she was on her speaking tour. During that time, the CP tried to recruit him and he frequently went to parties at their cottage at Lake Fenton where they drank and engaged in relations with other women. She recounts that the CP tried to convince him that she was too much of a dominating force in his life. He was not an enthusiastic reader like her or his father, Carl Johnson. Kermit relied on her to discuss with him the things that she read, which he then used in his speeches. Even though this exchange of ideas benefited him, he resented her intelligence and role she played in his political life. (25:53-31:52)... After she returned to Flint and collapsed at a Women's Auxiliary meeting, the union sent her to a tuberculosis sanitarium in upper New York state where she was treated for six months. While there, she began receiving literature from socialists who supported Leon Trotsky (Trotskyites). Although she was called a Trotskyite to communists, she did not know anything about Trotsky or the Trotskyites before reading their literature in the hospital. (31:52-33:29)... Dollinger was an alternate member of the SP State Executive Committee, and she occasionally attended meetings in Detroit with Carl Johnson who was a delegate and representative on the executive committee. All of the members of the executive committee were either Thomasites or Clarityites. She reiterates that she did not learn anything about the Trotskyites until she received their literature while in the hospital. After she was released from the tuberculosis sanitarium, she returned to Flint and began organizing for the WPA. End of tape.
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