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Loveless, Juanita (audio interview #2 of 3)
INTERVIEW DESCRIPTION - As in the first interview, Loveless was a "live wire" and was very open and candid. The interview was conducted in her North Hollywood apartment. 7/21/1981
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- 2021-06-09
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- SUBJECT BIO - Juanita Loveless was barely seventeen years old when she went to work for Vega (Lockheed) as an assembler in 1942. Born in Childress, Texas, the third of eleven children, when she was only thirteen Loveless' mother took the children to Oklahoma City. They lived for a while in a community camp, until her mother farmed her out to work as a servant. She was saved from that situation by one family, and then later taken under the wings of another, with whom she came to California to pick dates. She returned to Fort Sill, Oklahoma with them briefly, and then when the was began came out to California on her own. She went to Hollywood and got a job first in a bowling alley, and then at a gas station, until she went to work at Vega (Lockheed). Loveless quit aircraft assembly work before war's end due to a skin condition that she developed and began to waitress. Married at war's end, but separated before the birth of her daughter, she realized that waitressing work provided the flexibility she needed as a single parent. She enjoyed the work and considered herself a "pro," though at the time of the interview she felt that she was becoming a victim of age discrimination. Because Loveless worked split shifts at one of the better restaurants in the San Fernando Valley, it was often difficult to schedule interviews. Ultimately, Jan Fischer conducted three interviews with Loveless in her North Hollywood apartment. She told her story with enthusiasm and was extremely candid. She had second thoughts about her candor and initially asked that a pseudonym (Norma Cantrell) be used in order to protect members of her family. However, later, she decided to attach her own name to her chapter in the book, Rosie the Riveter Revisited: Women, the War and Social Change. TOPICS - move to California; living arrangements; housing shortages; job market; work experiences prior to applying at Vega; rationing coupons; earnings; advertisements for defense jobs; application process at Vega; descripwork force demographics; influx of women and Blacks at Vega; race relations; training employees; exposure to chemicals and skin condition; working conditions; job advertisements; wages; patriotism; social activitiework injuries; tools; safety precautions; earnings and spending habits; living arrangements; Studio Hotel; other wartime jobs; treatment of skin condition; exposure to chemicals at Vega; veterans' attitudes towardshomosexual subculture; work clothing; working conditions; stereotypes towards women in defense work; rationing and black market activities; wartime propaganda; race relations; and criticism of the war among LovelesThe very short segment of the interview on this side of the tapes focuses mainly on criticism of the war among Loveless' peers;
- *** File: rrrjloveless5.mp3 Audio Segments and Topics: (0:00-5:51)... The atmosphere at Fort Sill became very frenzied when war was declared. All civilians were ordered off the base and Mrs. Eckels packed up and moved to Seattle. Loveless returned to Oklahoma City to visit her mother. Loveless remembered visiting Hollywood when she was in California picking dates and decided to move there. She paid a driver twelve dollars to take her to California. The drive was long and she was packed into the car with seven people. When they arrived in Hollywood, the driver dropped them off at a hotel and disappeared with their their luggage. With only the clothes on her back and only a couple dollars to her name, Loveless rode the street car to San Pedro where she had a contact. When she arrived at her friend's apartment, however, she learned that he had gone off to war. She returned to Hollywood and rented a room at the Studio Hotel. She was shuffled around from floor to floor because of vacancy restrictions. Her first memories of California are of feeling "totally and completely alone." (5:51-6:53)... Her second day in California, Loveless got a job at a bowling alley setting pins. She quit after two days because she could not handle the noise. There were help wanted signs everywhere. Loveless realized that she would have to lie about her age if she wanted to get a decent job so, "overnight I suddenly became eighteen years old." Her second job was with Krieger Oil Company. (6:53-10:18)... The first person she got acquainted with was her landlady at the Studio Hotel. Loveless recalls how she had to register under a different name and change rooms each week because of wartime vacancy restrictions. She had to share a room with four or five people because "there were jobs everywhere and signs everywhere, but you could not find a place to live." Loveless immediately applied for rationing coupons. Her father also forwarded her the coupons he received as part of his family allotment. She often traded coupons for rooms or other amenities. She remembers paying a high price to live in a woman's parlor. However, she could afford it considering she earned $45 a week which "was more money than I ever saw in my entire life. I didn't even know what to do with it." She also inherited a car and gas coupons when a girlfriend went into the service. Loveless drove the car for about three months until the tires wore out, but she continued to use the gas coupons. (10:18-13:31)... When Loveless first arrived in California and found herself almost penniless, she sent a telegram to her father and asked him to send her money. He sent her blank checks for three months until she got on her feet. She used the money to pay for rent. Her first week in California she survived on one meal a day. (13:31-19:19)... After she left the bowling alley, she went to work for Miller Brothers Gas Station pumping gas. A Black comedian greeted customers as a gimmick to get people to buy gas there. She earned $16 a week and was constantly being recruited for other jobs. She decided to go to work for Krieger Oil Company for two dollars more. She was approached by a recruiter from Vega Aircraft on several occasions while she was working at Krieger Oil. She eventually went to the application office and was hired to work on the assembly line. She worked so many jobs during the war that her paychecks piled up in her dresser drawer. Working in defense had its benefits. She received access to rationed items and was placed on a priority list for housing. She rented an apartment with her girlfriend Edna after they started at Vega. (19:19-25:24)... There were help wanted signs posted everywhere offering jobs to the public. Newspapers and radio advertisements also encouraged people to apply for jobs in the defense industry. She describes the circumstances that led her to Miller Brothers and Krieger Oil Company. In April 1942, she applied at Vega. During the application process, they asked for her birth certificate and even though she did not have one, they agreed to hire her as long as she provided them with a copy of the document once she received it. When she first arrived at Vega, she was sent to Department 16 and assigned to a bench where she was trained how to buck and rivet. The instructors and most of the people training along side her were men. There only were a couple of middle-aged women in training at that time. After a few hours, she thought the work was easy and wondered "What's to learn here. I've been working as a grease monkey. This is silly. I could do this. I don't have to sit here and train." She describes the plant and of Department 16. (25:24-28:54)... Loveless moved into assembly line production on her second or third day at Vega. She worked along side "real, seasoned, workable men" bucking and riveting the shell of B-17 aircraft. She describes her responsibilities, indicating that she worked in that section for only six weeks. Every day she noticed new faces coming into the plant and wondered "where are all the men going." Within a few weeks, the men in Department 16 decreased from about 1,500 to 20 or 30. She recalls that the men were replaced by women and Blacks. This marked her first exposure to Black people. The interview ends just as Loveless mentions that she was transferred from assembly line production to the training bench in order to train the Black employees coming into Vega. End of tape. *** File: rrrjloveless6.mp3 (0:00-3:38)... Loveless' did not train for very long. She learned fast, explaining, "as long as I'm shown something, I can do it." All of her training instructors and most of the people she trained with were men within the age range of twenty to forty. As more women and Blacks were recruited to Vega, the men with deferred classifications left the plant for military service. There were some young men with a 4F status who remained at Vega; however, the majority of the men at the plant were in their late thirties and early forties. By 1942, the plant was predominantly staffed by women and Blacks. Loveless recalls that a few of her girlfriends at Vega left the plant to serve in the WAVES and the WACs, including the plant nurse. Loveless found it "difficult to make friends and even more difficult to keep them because they came and went so fast." (3:38-8:46)... In 1942, Loveless was transferred to the training section of Department 16 to train new employees, which included Black men and women. She found it extremely difficult to train them, claiming that they were unable to learn the necessary skills. She also claims that they had offensive body odor. After a short time in the training center, she threatened to quit if she was not transferred into another department. She moved into final assembly and claims to have observed the same types of behaviors among the Black workers, citing as an example a man who occasionally fell asleep while she was enclosed in a small and very hot wing space waiting to buck his rivets. She states, "Blacks were quire notorious for napping and they would get up in the planes and sock out." Eventually, Loveless was transferred to the wiring and cockpit section of production. (8:46-10:45)... Loveless developed a skin disease while she was working at Vega because of the chemicals to which she was exposed. It spread to the areas of her body that were exposed while she worked. She never received a formal diagnosis of her skin condition, but it resembled psoriasis. In late 1943, she transferred to an easier position at a Lockheed plant in an attempt to relieve the problems with her skin, but ended up leaving the company in the early months of 1944. (10:45-12:32)... By the time Loveless left Lockheed-Vega in 1944, the majority of employees were women and Blacks. The men who remained at the plant during the war were middle-aged or 4Fs. She once again mentions Stan and a man the women called "PB." She asks that the tape be turned off so that she can say what the initials stood for. Even though PB was a good employee, he was considered socially unacceptable by Loveless and her friends. (12:32-16:02)... When Loveless applied at Vega she was not told what type of work she would be doing. She had an idea because many of the advertisements specified available positions like assembly work. The public was bombarded with the advertisements "Win the war. Do your part. Be patriotic." She went to work for Vega because she got caught up in the tide of patriotism. The money was peripheral to her decision to work in defense. During the war, job opportunities were ample and during her first three weeks in California she had many options to choose from. When Loveless wrote to her father about her plans to work at Vega, he discouraged her about getting involved in the war effort and forbade her from entering the service. (16:02-19:24)... She began drinking and going to bars when she was seventeen and behaved like a typical twenty-one-year-old woman. When she started at Vega she worked the swing shift from 3:00 p.m. until 11:00 p.m. Except for bars, there were not very many places to go when she got out of work at midnight because of wartime black outs. She switched to the graveyard shift because she was restless and wanted to work another job. As the war progressed, she became frustrated with co-workers who lost their enthusiasm for the war and became lackadaisical about production schedules. Even though she thought "the work was hard. It was hot. It was dirty. It was noisy," she became frustrated with the lazy mentality she encountered at Vega towards the end of the war. (19:24-23:38)... Loveless describes the ethnic and geographical backgrounds of the employees who worked at Vega. In addition to "Arkies" and "Okies," housewives came to work at Vega out of a sense of patriotism and a desire to contribute to the war effort. Like many of her co-workers, Loveless had family members and loved ones fighting overseas. She talks about her brothers who served in the military and the shock she felt when a former boyfriend came home from the war blind. Amidst these difficulties, Loveless remained steadfast and dedicated to her defense work while others around her slacked off. (23:38-25:44)... She had never worn pants before she started at Vega except for a jumpsuit that was tailored made for her when she went to work for Krieger Oil Company. She wore that jumpsuit on her first day of work. She then purchased boy's blue jeans and heavy, plaid shirts to avoid getting scratches on her skin from the tools and rough edges. The work was easy for her, but "it was more than just holding a bar and shooting a drill." (25:44-26:18)... Looking back, Loveless thinks that Blacks had a difficult time at Vega because they "had never been exposed to work like that." She worked with a Black men while she was in Department 16. She cannot recall working with very many Black women in her immediate section. As the war progressed, it was the Black women who continued on at the plant and the Black men went off into the service or found other jobs. (26:18-28:22)... There were not very many young, white men employed at Vega once the war was underway; however, the ones who stayed at Vega were usually the "worst" among the male employees at the company. There were cat calls, "but they had a lot of fun." Men and women socialized during lunch breaks or while they were at the tool crib. She digresses regarding the irresponsibility of people who were being trained on the early stages of the assembly line, which she described as "first grade." (28:22-28:58)... Initially, she was intimated by the tools she had to use to perform her duties. End of tape. *** File: rrrjloveless7.mp3 (0:00-1:26)... Loveless understood the inherent danger in working with certain tools and she was always cautious. She earned her share of scratches and cuts, but eventually became immune to the pain or simply avoided injuries altogether. She protected herself by wearing safety goggles and long sleeves. She attempted to wear gloves when she worked, but they made it difficult to feel what she was working with. (1:26-6:19)... There is static in this segment that interferes with the audio quality. Loveless mentions the frustration she felt when she found herself putting in more effort than her co-workers. The women at the plant understood their purpose; however, towards the end of the war they were no longer motivated by the notion that they were necessary to win the war. The foreman tried to motivate employees to meet production quotas by telling them "every hand helps." Loveless witnessed co-workers sleeping on the job and taking advantage of their positions. She recalls a foreman who called and talked to her every night when he was supposed to be working. She once reminded her co-worker Stan that while her brothers were fighting overseas or suffering from war wounds "you're sitting on your ass sleeping" She remained patriotic until the end, but resigned herself to the "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude and stopped pushing herself so hard. (6:19-6:48)... There is continued static in the beginning of this segment. Loveless does not recall if there was a union at Vega. (6:48-11:14)... There is continued static in this segment. Loveless used her earnings to purchase clothing and personal accessories. She also participated in the war bond program at Vega. As she earned more money, she was able to afford better residences. She provides a detailed description of the Studio Hotel, her main residence her first few weeks in California. In 1944, her brother died and she sent a substantial amount of money to her mother in Oklahoma City. Loveless never had any problems coping with shortages or rationing. She made due by exchanging her coupons for certain items. She was always in a panic about the availability of cigarettes. (11:14-12:51)... While she was employed at Vega, she worked a second job for a man in Glendale who stored automobiles for servicemen and for Japanese people sent to detention camps during the war. When she left that job, she found work at a studio taking photographs of servicemen and making tape recordings for their families. (12:51-17:32)... Loveless discusses the skin condition she developed when she was at Vega. She went to the first aid station at the plant and was referred to two or three doctors. Her treatment consisted of wearing special clothing and treating her skin with various ointments. When her condition did not improve, she quit working at Vega and spent six weeks at home trying to recover. The last doctor she saw told her that she should never work with raw metal, gasoline, or any types of chemicals. She describes the types of chemicals she was exposed to while at Vega. She talks about having occasional lapses in memory and states that she never admitted to anyone that she worked in the aircraft industry. WWII veterans thought that women who worked in the defense industry were "pretty frivolous and gum popping with flowers in our hair and looking for men and roaming the streets looking for soldiers." The first thing she wanted to do after work was take a bath. (17:32-21:53)... Loveless was criticized by some of her family members because she did not have the typical characteristics indicative of someone from Texas or Oklahoma. She had a similar reaction towards people who were not in the service or working in a vital war industry. This "you're not doing your part" mentality faded towards the end and ceased to exist when Japan was bombed. By that time, "People just wanted the money and they didn't care. They were disillusioned from having to do without." (21:53-28:07)... She talks about her social life during the war and the activities she enjoyed with her friends. She had never been exposed to the "world of homosexuality" before moving to California and finding out that many of her close friends were lesbians. She comments on the "throw away society" of the post-war period and how she developed a "sickness in spirit" because of this wastefulness. During that period she also began exploring her childhood and the problems in her family. (28:07-28:51)... Loveless explains that she has yet to meet anyone who worked in the aircraft industry who enjoyed their work during WWII. End of tape. *** File: rrrjloveless8.mp3 (0:00-3:04)... Loveless recalls finding out that two of her close friends were lesbians after they asked her to read The Well of Loneliness. During the war, people did not pry into each other's personal lives. Loveless believes that the end of the WWII also marked the end to an age of innocence. (3:04-6:27)... Loveless began noticing a skin irritation on her arms in 1943. She tried to cover her skin with heavy work attire and, like most women, she wore a hat with a bill and a hair net to protect her head from the metal shavings. She disputes the notion that women became masculine during the war because they wore manly clothing and cut their hair. (6:27-14:33)... She talks about feeling disillusioned with people who profited from the war instead of contributing to the war effort. She decided to leave Vega for this reason and because she began to feel an "aversion to making anything that would hurt anybody." She mentions the community solidarity in cities where defense plants were located. Loveless believes that it was easy to spot someone who was not contributing to the war effort. She realized the impact of the war when a former boyfriend came home blind. She remembers the symbolism of the song "I'll Be Seeing You," which was reflected in the letters she received from boyfriends in the service. When her brother was injured in the war, she returned to defense work at Hartman. She worked there only a week and decided that she could not do it anymore. (14:33-21:53)... The most difficult aspect of her job was learning to deal with the working conditions. In addition to the heat and the noise, everyone had different work ethics and motivations for going to work. The company adopted different tactics to motivate the labor force, including pep talks and propaganda newsreels that tugged at the heart strings and reminded employees what their role was in the war. Loveless caught on to this subtle manipulation fairly early. She recalls similar techniques being used in church; however, when she caught on in that instance she left the church and never returned. Most women went to work at Vega out of patriotism and a desperate need to contribute to the war effort, not for the money. (21:53-23:50)... Loveless did not have any specific plans after she left Vega. She continued to contribute to the war effort by volunteering for USO activities and purchasing war bonds. She does not believe that she would have stayed at Vega as long as she had if she was not been motivated by patriotism. Like most young people, all she needed to know was that the US was winning the war. (23:50-26:15)... Most women went to work in defense for patriotic reasons or as an excuse to "break out into the world." Loveless believes that this was especially the case for Black women who found war work one of the first decent opportunities available to them. She socialized with Black women while at work, but never afterwards. In some ways, Blacks were segregated at Vega because they were scattered throughout the plant and whites usually did not want to work near them or socialize with them. She feels that the Blacks she worked with exhibited a poor work ethic and bad body odor. (26:15-28:52)... Loveless remembers when people began to question the war and whether or not FDR was responsible for provoking the attack on Pearl Harbor. She believes that these seeds of discontent were planted when people began to feel frustrated with rationing and black marketeers profiting from the war. End of tape. *** File: rrrjloveless9.mp3 (0:00-3:23)... Loveless continues to discuss why people within her age group began to question the war and FDR's policies. End of tape.
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